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Full transcript of “Face the Nation” on January 23, 2022


On this “Face the Nation” broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:

  • Secretary of State Antony Blinken
  • Consultant Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi
  • Consultant Michael McCaul, Republican of Texas
  • Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner

Click on right here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”  


MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington. 

And this week on Face the Nation: The standoff between Russia and the U.S. over Ukraine escalates. President Biden vows swift and extreme penalties ought to Vladimir Putin defy him; plus, dramatic new developments within the January 6 investigation. 

Tensions in Japanese Europe are at their highest level in years, with Russia’s army buildup alongside Ukraine’s borders continuing, regardless of U.S.- led diplomatic negotiations. 

We’ll get the most recent from Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Texas Congressman Michael McCaul might be with us too. He is main the Home Republicans’ push for brand spanking new sanctions to try to halt Russian President Vladimir Putin’s aggression. 

We’ll speak with the chairman of the congressional committee investigating the January 6 assault, Mississippi Democrat Bennie Thompson. Late final week, the Supreme Courtroom ordered the discharge of 700 pages of White Home paperwork detailing President Trump and his allies’; communications main as much as and together with the day of the assault. 

The Omicron wave within the East is subsiding, however the each day demise toll from COVID reaches a brand new excessive. We’ll hear from former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. Plus, People weigh in on the pandemic and the economic system, as President Biden kicks off his second 12 months in workplace. 

It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.

Good morning and welcome to FACE THE NATION. We start with the tense standoff alongside the Ukraine border. A couple of hundred thousand Russian troops at the moment are poised to probably invade from the north, east and south of Ukraine. Russian fighter jets and missiles arrived in neighboring Belarus, the place battle video games are set to start. In the meantime, NATO naval workouts are going down south of Crimea within the Mediterranean, and 90 tons of army help simply arrived in Kiev from america. President Biden is monitoring the state of affairs from Camp David, and he met along with his nationwide safety group yesterday. Late Saturday, Britain accused Russia of a plot to put in a pro-Russian chief in Ukraine because it considers some type of assault. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is simply again from consultations along with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, and he joins us this morning from the State Division. Good morning. Mr. Secretary, these all seem like indicators of escalation.

SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN: Effectively, we have been seeing this all through Russia’s been engaged in an ongoing escalation, and it has to move earlier than it, that we put earlier than it. There’s a path of diplomacy and dialogue, which is clearly the preferable one, essentially the most accountable factor to do. There’s additionally the trail of Russian aggression and large penalties for Russia if it engages in that aggression. And so I attempted to clarify each paths in my assembly with Overseas Minister Lavrov in Geneva this week, and we’ll see if we are able to advance the diplomacy. However whilst we’re doing that, we’re getting ready, increase defenses, increase deterrence if Russia chooses the opposite path.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But when Russia’s calls for are non-starters, what precisely are you negotiating? As a result of Russia is creating these information on the bottom, they’re setting the phrases right here, it appears. Are they only utilizing you to purchase time or to construct a predicate for invasion?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Effectively, that is precisely why, whilst we interact within the diplomacy, to discover whether or not there are methods on a reciprocal foundation of increase collective safety, answering a few of the issues that Russia could have, Russia answering the numerous issues that we’ve got. At the same time as we’re doing that, we’re increase protection and deterrence. Now we have rallied allies and companions throughout Europe in a really intense approach over the past weeks to make very clear that there could be large penalties for renewed Russian aggression. We supplied extra army help to Ukraine final 12 months than in any earlier 12 months. We have been going after brokers of Russia in- in Ukraine searching for to destabilize the federal government. I simply authorized the- the switch of U.S. origin army know-how in different nations to Ukraine. So we’re continuing on each paths on the similar time, we’ll be prepared both approach. The selection is Vladimir Putin’s.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However- however what are you negotiating if Russia’s calls for are non-starters? I imply, President Biden has already mentioned Ukraine isn’t going to affix NATO any time quickly. You have made this supply of reciprocal army workouts. What’s left to speak about?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: MARGARET, we began this- this effort of diplomacy and dialogue about 10 days in the past, we had conferences between america and Russia by way of the so-called Strategic Stability Dialogue. We had a gathering of the NATO-Russia Council. We had a gathering on the OSCE. And in the middle of that, Russia has put some concepts on the desk in writing to each america and NATO. We have been in very shut session with allies and companions on what they put ahead. We at the moment are sharing our personal concepts in addition to our personal deep issues. And we’ll see if within the combine there, there are issues that we are able to do once more on a reciprocal foundation that may really advance collective safety in a approach that solutions a few of what we’re listening to and Russia answering a number of what they’re listening to from us. And as Russia seems to be at that and because it considers the huge penalties that may befall it if it pursues aggression, it must decide. It must put these issues within the steadiness and resolve what the very best path ahead is. I do know what essentially the most accountable path ahead is. Whether or not President Putin agrees stays to be seen.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, he hasn’t de-escalated it seems so far, regardless of all of what you simply laid out. In case you are centered on deterrence, why not do what Ukraine is asking you to do and sanction now, take motion now? Why maintain it as a punitive matter after the actual fact?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Effectively, first, we’re, as I mentioned, taking motion now we constructed up throughout these many weeks a really robust coalition of nations that has made it very clear it should take very vital motion if Russia commits renewed acts of aggression. You have heard that not simply from us, you have heard it from the G7, the main democratic economies on the planet, from the European Union and from NATO–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper and Ukraine is saying you can go more durable, you can be stronger.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: We provided- we have supplied very vital army help to Ukraine. We have been taking motion in opposition to Russian brokers in Ukraine. However as to the sanctions, crucial factor we are able to do is to make use of them as a deterrent, as a way of dissuading Russia from partaking in additional aggression. As soon as sanctions are triggered, you lose the deterrent impact. So what we’re doing is placing collectively an entire sequence of actions that may determine into President Putin’s calculus.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper. However I imply, even President Biden mentioned at his press convention this week, he is spent a number of time making an attempt to get NATO’s allies to truly be on the identical web page in relation to something in need of invasion. I imply, it looks like Putin’s best technique could be to hit on that weak point, that is the way you divide NATO’s allies. I imply, simply yesterday, the top of the German Navy needed to resign due to pro-Putin statements. This does not seem like the alliance is totally collectively right here.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: First, we have been very clear that if there’s any additional Russian aggression by way of sending Russian forces into Ukraine, there might be a swift, there might be a extreme and there might be a united response from america and Europe. Second, we have been equally clear that Russia engages in different ways in need of sending forces into- into Ukraine or different nations: hybrid actions, cyberattacks, efforts to convey a authorities down. And there are too. I am very assured based mostly on the numerous consultations I’ve had with European allies and companions that there might be a swift calibrated and in addition united response. Look, I sat with Chancellor Schulz in Germany final week, in addition to with my German counterpart, my French counterpart, my British counterpart and I’m very satisfied there might be a united response to no matter Russia does.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is the truth that you want Iran- want Russia that will help you with the Iran negotiations tying your arms?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Not within the least. And once more, it is necessary to place this in perspective, too, Margaret. That is about extra even than Ukraine and Russia, extra even than Europe, Russia, america, Russia. It truly is and must be a world concern as a result of there are some primary rules of worldwide relations at stake which have helped maintain the peace and safety–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper–

SECRETARY BLINKEN: in Europe for- for the final of the final a long time. And the- and it goes to very primary rules one nation cannot change the–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Precisely however Vladimir Putin– Vladimir Putin clearly has no regard for these rules and hasn’t, I imply, previously eight years that he is been invading and taking components of Ukraine. Once you get to that greater, “What is that this all about?” query, the State Division mentioned this week they have been involved about the potential of Russia transferring nuclear weapons again into Belarus. I imply, you will have excessive precision gear being moved in the direction of Ukraine. Is that this about one thing extra than simply that nation?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Effectively, that is precisely why, whilst we’re engaged in diplomacy, we’re very a lot centered on increase protection. Build up deterrence, each for Ukraine, NATO itself, NATO itself will proceed to be bolstered in a major approach if Russia commits renewed acts of aggression. All of that is- is on the desk. However once more, in relation to these rules, MARGARET, the precept that one nation cannot merely change the borders of one other by power, that it may’t resolve for an additional nation its decisions, its selections–

MARGARET BRENNAN: Russia already has.

SECRETARY BLINKEN: Effectively, that is what we’re- that is what we’re standing resolutely in opposition to. And it hasn’t. It is tried to say that NATO’s door must be shut on Ukraine. It is not. It stays open. We stand by that precept.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How vital is the insider menace to President Zelensky and his authorities?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: That is once more, a part of the Russian playbook. It is one thing we’re very centered on, and that is why we have been talking about it. We have raised this publicly in current weeks. We need to put folks on discover and on guard that that is one thing Russia might do. Simply as we talked about the potential of a so-called false flag operation the place Russia creates a provocation inside Ukraine, use that as justification to take aggressive motion. All of these issues are a part of the playbook. All of these issues we’re on guard in opposition to. All of these issues we’re speaking to allies and companions about to ensure that in opposition to any of those situations, we’re totally ready.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Earlier than I allow you to go, does the timing of the Olympics have any impact on Putin’s calculus? Russia invaded Georgia through the Olympics again in 2008. Any influence right here?

SECRETARY BLINKEN: You’d need to ask him. I do not suppose so. I believe that Russia will make its selections based mostly on President Putin’s calculus of what is what’s of their curiosity. We’re working very laborious to have an effect on that calculus, each by way of providing a diplomatic path ahead that would improve collective safety for all of us and equally a path of protection and deterrence. That makes very clear that if there’s aggression, there will be large penalties. So the selection is his.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. Secretary, we’ll be watching. Thanks in your time at the moment. And in a single minute, we’ll check out the brand new developments within the January sixth assault investigation with Congressman Bennie Thompson. Stick with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re again now with the Chairman of the committee investigating the Jan. 6 assault on the Capitol. Congressman Bennie Thompson of Mississippi. Good morning to you, chairman.

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Good morning, how are you?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Good. This was a really large week, as we mentioned, 700 pages of Trump administration paperwork have been handed over to your committee on the order of the Supreme Courtroom. What adjustments now that you’ve these in your possession?

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, we’re within the technique of reviewing the paperwork. As you understand, this was one of many first requests that we made as a committee to the Nationwide Archives. We predict it is necessary to our investigation to have this data and we’re glad that the Supreme Courtroom agreed with us at the moment.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that this the final piece of the puzzle right here? I imply, how does this have an effect on your timeline for holding public hearings? As you mentioned, you need to start these within the spring.

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, to be trustworthy, the place he’ll assessment the paperwork, we’ll see what these paperwork current to us by way of path. We’ll see if that data leads us to extra people to make requests. But it surely’s so vital to our investigation to have the paperwork and government privilege and different issues clearly had no bearing, and we’re simply completely satisfied for the Supreme Courtroom resolution. We’ll sit up for reviewing it and based mostly on the assessment, we’ll take subsequent steps. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: And the spring continues to be the plan for public hearings?

REP. THOMPSON: Completely. To be trustworthy with you, as you understand, we’re reviewing 1000’s of pages of paperwork, lots of of witnesses. It is taken an excellent little bit of time for the committee to place collectively. And hearings at this level, we anticipate to be someday within the spring.

MARGARET BRENNAN: In current days, your committee additionally took purpose at Rudy Giuliani, the previous president’s legal professional. You subpoenaed him. You requested the president’s daughter, Ivanka Trump, to look by Feb 3. You additionally subpoenaed two white nationalists. This looks like a reasonably vast web. What’s your technique?

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, our technique is to get to all of the information and circumstances that led to Jan 6. We recognized the gamers, Rudy Giuliani is clearly a type of people, the right-wing particular person organizations that participated, offering safety and different issues crucial. And clearly, Ivanka Trump was a significant adviser to the president all alongside, quite a few objects attributed to what she’s been saying and so we requested her to come back in voluntarily and provides us the good thing about what she is aware of. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Will she? 

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, we’ll wait and see February third, and we’ll go after that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When it comes to Rudy Giuliani, who we simply talked about, you subpoenaed. There was one other information improvement by way of public reporting. Republican electors in no less than 5 states put collectively basically faux slates of the electors. In states that Joe Biden gained, they handed over these slates, saying as a substitute that Donald Trump gained them. And in accordance with Marc Quick, the previous chief of workers to Vice President Mike Pence, he was offered with letters by Rudy Giuliani on behalf of state legislators to this- to this finish, making an attempt to steer the previous vp to not certify the election. Have you learnt who was orchestrating this effort? I imply, this can be a fairly vital declare.

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, we do know that a few of the data we have obtained from Nationwide Archives embrace proposed plans for doing sure issues if we’re after assessment of these plans decided particularly people who did this. We’ll make the referral to the Justice Division. We’re not a felony entity, that is the Division of Justice, however we’re involved that paperwork have been filed saying they have been people liable for conducting and certifying elections, and they aren’t. And while you falsify paperwork, in most cases, that is a felony act. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: There was additionally one other story, vital. POLITICO revealed the textual content of a draft government order that had been offered to President Trump in Dec of 2020 to have the protection secretary seize voting machines in battleground states. And a number of information organizations have now reported this. Do you plan to go to the Legal professional Common, Invoice Barr, to ask him about this? I imply, how do you comply with up on- on this type of allegation and the paperwork to again it up?

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, sure, we do. To be trustworthy with you, we have had conversations with the previous legal professional normal already. Now we have talked to Division of Protection people. We’re involved that our army was a part of this large lie on selling that the election was false. So, if you’re utilizing the army to probably seize voting machines, although it is a dialogue, the general public must know, we have by no means had that earlier than. And so any of those people who’re taking part and making an attempt to cease the election, the duly election of a president, and if we are able to doc it, we are going to share it with the general public.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I simply need to comply with up on one thing you mentioned. Do you will have proof that there was somebody inside america army engaged on this premise? Of really seizing voting machines.

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, we’ve got data that between the Division of Justice, a plan was put ahead to probably seize voting machines within the nation and make the most of Division of Protection property to make that occur.

MARGARET BRENNAN: One thing past this draft government order, there was really an operational plan?

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, no, not an operational plan, however simply the draft itself is-

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REP. THOMPSON: –Is cause sufficient to consider that it was being proposed. Our job is to get to the information and circumstances of how far did they go? We do know {that a} potential individual was recognized to develop into the legal professional normal of america, who would talk with sure states that election on their state of affairs had been fraudulent and to not produce licensed paperwork. Effectively, we perceive that. So, we are going to transfer ahead on that investigation, and we are going to look and see particularly how far that plan went.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That is unbelievable. Will the previous legal professional normal, Invoice Barr, testify to you? Will you search out different members of the army to make clear a few of what you simply laid out right here?

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, a part of our plan is to proceed to have interaction all these people that we deem essential and necessary to our investigation. Some will speak to some we are going to do in deposition beneath oath. Others we are going to supply listening to alternatives. However I can guarantee you, as we develop this data, we are going to clearly current it to the general public. We plan at this level to have a sequence of public hearings exhibiting the usage of federal property, Division of Justice, Division of Protection and different companies to truly cease the duly election of a president. So, we’ll do it in-in due time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Rapidly, Stewart Rhodes, the top of the far-right group the Oath Keepers, was charged with seditious conspiracy by the Division of Justice this week. As a part of that, it grew to become public that he was apparently stashing weapons ready for the White Home to invoke the Revolt Act. Is any a part of that linked to what you simply laid out?

REP. THOMPSON: Effectively, Stewart Rhodes is likely one of the individuals that we establish as a committee we wished to speak to. We’ll see what occurs. We’re not a part of the felony indictment. That is a separate investigation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I perceive. Chairman, thanks in your time this morning. And subsequent up, we’ll have extra on the state of affairs in Ukraine and what will be executed to cease Russia.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re again with the highest Republican on the Overseas Affairs Committee within the Home, Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas. Good morning to you.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): Good morning. Thanks for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Heaps to decipher with you. However first, I need to begin on what we simply heard from the chairman. Has that appeared pretty extraordinary what he simply laid out? He says that there’s cause to consider, and the committee has possession of paperwork about this plot, basically to grab voting machines that contain members of the army that they’ve already been in contact with the previous legal professional normal. What’s your response to this?

REP. MCCAUL: Effectively, you understand my response, it was a darkish day, Jan.6, I would like the reality to come back out. I believe this committee has been considerably politicized. However the fact ought to come out, and I believe the Division of Justice has been conducting an investigation. I labored on the DOJ for nearly 15 years, and I belief their belief investigation- I actually known as upon them to research this, so I am hopeful that the reality will come out on this. The allegations are very critical.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And I do know that you’re endorsed by the previous President Trump. So, this needs to be a bit uncomfortable to listen to these sorts of allegations.

REP. MCCAUL: I’ve- after all, I imply, when the executive- commander in chief and these are allegations, I do not suppose the chief order was ever adopted by way of with–

MARGARET BRENNAN: –Proper, It was a draft, however it was mentioned within the Oval Workplace.

REP. MCCAUL: – Proper. I believe it ought to come out the reality, clearly. I all the time say it. The reality ought to come out.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, we are going to proceed to look at the committee on that time on Russia. You heard the secretary say that if he makes use of the leverage of sanctions now, he provides up an necessary little bit of deterrence. Do you disagree?

REP. MCCAUL: I fully disagree. I believe this has been a passive deterrence, proper? I do not. I do not see Putin altering his plan of action. It is getting very aggressive. The noose is tightening round Ukraine. President Zelensky, as you talked about, mentioned he needs the sanctions now. We are able to all the time take away the sanctions if it deters Putin’s unhealthy habits, however when you reward that and there are not any penalties, it may proceed. And I believe all alongside, there are such a lot of issues we will be doing to offer deterrence if we do not do that, MARGARET. The plan of motion that I’ve seen within the labeled house, in addition to very particular, very aggressive, is timetable. If we do not do one thing robust proper now, I am afraid that he will invade Ukraine, which can have, as- because the secretary talked about, he is proper and I believe you and I did. It’s going to have international ramifications right here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: After I pressed the secretary on that, he twice mentioned that the US goes after Russian brokers in Ukraine. Is the US doing one thing now that the remainder of us simply do not learn about? Or is he simply speaking about sanctions?

REP. MCCAUL: Effectively, we all know that the Brits launched this intelligence report that the Russians are attempting to depose Zelensky and put their very own chief. We all know that they are proper on the border with Belarus, they will do joint workouts with precision weapons and plane. We all know that Kiev is right- Kiev is true there. I believe there are three forces one Kiev, one on the Donbass and the opposite one Black Sea Crimea. It is a buildup we have by no means seen earlier than. And if with no deterrence, it may occur.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Let’s take a break and proceed to speak about this on the opposite aspect of it. So, congressman, please keep right here. We’ll be proper again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION, we proceed our dialog now with Congressman Michael McCaul, the lead Republican on the Home Overseas Affairs Committee. Let’s choose again up on the difficulty of Russia. We’re speaking about fast motion, probably. Congress goes away for every week. There are payments earlier than the Senate. I do know you are engaged on one within the Home. I imply, do you will have that sort of time to play with laws or do you want one thing by way of a instrument set handy the president extra shortly?

REP. MCCAUL: Effectively, time is of the essence. I am engaged on a invoice I’ve launched to get- we’re getting key Democrats on board. It could be a-a-a help bundle of deadly help to Ukraine. That is necessary. However what’s additionally necessary is the message of deterrence. We’d like joint workouts in Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, Bulgaria to indicate Putin that we’re critical. Proper now. He would not see we’re critical and that is why the buildup is going down. I believe this all began, MARGARET, with Afghanistan and the unconditional give up to the Taliban when he noticed weak point, weak point invitations aggression. We noticed that with Chamberlain and Hitler. You already know, Reagan talked about peace by way of energy. And proper now, whether- and-and the factor is, this isn’t nearly Ukraine. It is about China. It is about President Xi and Taiwan. It is concerning the Ayatollah and the bomb. It is about North Korea that simply fired off two missiles, they mentioned, have been, you understand, these, you understand, these hypersonic weapons. I believe this has broader international ramifications. We’re seen as weak proper now be-because of President Biden, his-his feedback a couple of limited- a restricted invasion was in some way acceptable, and that NATO was divided. I believe one factor he mentioned was true is that NATO is split, and that’s- Putin’s aim is to divide and weaken NATO. He is completed a few of that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, as you understand, I imply, this has been happening since 2014 and through the Trump administration, there was some lodging, no less than in language from the previous president on- on whether or not or not there have been laborious strains. So, Vladimir Putin has been getting sort of a blended message for a while right here. How do you alter that when President Biden and also you simply heard Sec. Blinken ship that message that they are prepared to have reciprocal restrictions on army workouts or on placement of missiles? Is that sort of lodging weak point to you?

REP. MCCAUL: Effectively, you understand, like let’s speak about Nord Stream 2, greatest concession ever. You already know– 

MARGARET BRENNAN: That is the potential fuel pipeline from Russia to Germany.

REP. MCCAUL: It is, you understand, Putin’s pipeline into Europe. Congress handed bipartisan necessary sanctions to cease that from taking place. Now we have a presidential waiver, that is very regular. We by no means dreamed that the President of america would waive that within the nationwide curiosity of america. How is that within the curiosity of america to permit Putin to dominate Europe’s power provide? after which on the similar time, shutting down Keystone and never permitting america to be the chief in power. LNG, which is cleaner than Putin’s soiled power from entering into the area. I believe this president has made so many concessions with nothing in return. That is why Putin smells weak point. He is wished this, as you and I talked about for a very long time. It is his legacy situation. And if we do not present that deterrence, he’ll go in.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You already know, the Germans have kind of been uncomfortable with the thought of transferring on Nord Stream and the administration is saying they’re just- they’re ready on that. On the opposite threat right here, we’ve got midterm races arising. In 2018, america took offensive motion in opposition to Russia to cease them from meddling in these races. Do we have to see one thing like that in 2022?

REP. MCCAUL: You already know, I do not need to see Russia overturning Ukraine’s authorities. You already know, I do not need to see any international nation adversary getting concerned in our elections. However once more, pointing from Afghanistan ahead, we’ve got despatched a message to our adversaries that we’re projecting weak point, not energy. One factor Reagan talked to us- peace by way of energy, going again to Chamberlain and Hitler. If we’re projecting weak point, it solely invitations aggression. Traditionally, you understand that. And that is exactly- I imply, I talked to the administration. I need to cease this from taking place, however I am very involved concerning the aggression I am seeing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, thanks very a lot in your perspective. You are proper again with Dr. Scott Gottlieb.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to the COVID pandemic, now getting into its third 12 months. Dr. Scott Gottlieb is a former FDA commissioner and sits on the board of Pfizer. Good morning to you physician. The CDC says case numbers are coming down. You mentioned we would be again in individual within the workplace in February. Do you stick by that timeline?

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yeah, I believe that is timeline nonetheless intact, you are seeing a number of companies make selections to do, return to work March 1st as a result of I believe they need to give themselves a cushion, particularly having been stunned earlier than. You are seeing instances come down very quickly within the East Coast, the states that have been the early outbreak states Florida, the mid-Atlantic, New York Metropolis, Chicago, Los Angeles. This virus is spreading to the Midwest. You are seeing instances choose up in states like Montana, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Wyoming, Idaho, so it is not executed but. Throughout america, there’s nonetheless states which can be in all probability within the thick of this. They’ve one other week, perhaps two weeks to go till they peak and begin to come down. However in locations like New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Washington, D.C., you are seeing instances decline very quickly. And I believe that thesis round a February return is undamaged.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Almost one million youngsters have been contaminated with COVID within the final week, in accordance with the American Academy of Pediatrics. One million. Is it too quickly for masks mandates to be lifted in colleges, because the governor of Virginia simply ordered?

DR. GOTTLIEB: Look, I believe it’s too quickly to try this as a result of a number of colleges have constructed their preparations round the usage of masks and no matter we need to say concerning the profit that masks are offering, it is offering some profit. And a number of colleges that could not implement social distancing could not implement testing of counting on masks as their solely instrument. So, to withdraw it proper on the peak of the epidemic. I believe it is imprudent we should always wait. I believe inside two weeks we’ll give you the option make that call. However this complete COVID epidemic, I believe, has been coloured by the truth that policymakers haven’t prescribed clear endpoints to when they’re going to withdraw these measures. I believe mother and father are prepared to tolerate masks in colleges, recognizing it’s extremely disruptive to youngsters if there’s an finish date to it, if it is clearly prescribed, when we will use these masks and when we will withdraw them, so they do not disrupt two years of a kid’s socialization and college actions. So, I believe policymakers stepping in and saying, look, we will put an finish level on this when prevalence declines to a sure degree and in sticking to it is vitally prudent. However to do it in a setting of the height of this epidemic, I believe places a problem on colleges which have based mostly their mitigation round the usage of masks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What’s that benchmark in your thoughts?

DR. GOTTLIEB: Effectively, the benchmark we prescribed final summer season was round 10 instances per 100,000 folks per day once we withdraw all mitigation. I believe you’ll be able to lean in and prescribe a better benchmark in relation to youngsters in colleges as a result of the very first thing that we should always do is attempt to withdraw these measures within the faculty setting. If you are going to implement masks amongst adults in congregate settings in a township, you need to lean in and attempt to withdraw it within the colleges first and attempt to protect as a lot of that atmosphere for studying as you’ll be able to.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Fauci raised a number of hopes this week for folks of younger youngsters like me, whose youngsters aren’t but eligible for vaccines. He mentioned for kids beneath 5, you might even see a vaccine out there within the subsequent month or so you have been saying someday between April and June. Which is it?

DR. GOTTLIEB: Effectively, I believe a month might be untimely to recollect the explanation why this was prolonged was as a result of the vaccines within the medical trial that Pfizer did – I am on the board of Pfizer as you understand. Pfizer examined a low dose within the youngsters. They examined quite a few totally different doses and selected the bottom doable dose as a result of at a decrease dose, you are going to have much less reactogenicity, much less vaccine associated uncomfortable side effects like fevers at injection web site response. You need to make certain the vaccine may be very tolerable in younger youngsters, however in all probability due to that low dose, we noticed much less vaccine effectiveness. There have been extra infections within the youngsters who have been vaccinated than what we noticed in a comparable group of 16 to 25 12 months olds. So, the choice was made by regulators working with Pfizer to increase that trial to have a look at a 3rd dose to see if that third dose restored the efficacy within the setting of Omicron, the place the vaccines are offering some safety in opposition to an infection about 50 % a 12 months. You are 50 % much less more likely to get contaminated with Omicron when you’re totally vaccinated with a booster. The first utility of the vaccines, nonetheless, is the safety in opposition to extreme illness hospitalization. And in that regard, getting any vaccine into younger youngsters in all probability goes to afford them a measure of safety by getting baseline immunity to them. So, any reconsideration of the vaccine timeline proper now by regulators might be based mostly on that. However I believe even when the FDA have been to rethink the approval of the vaccine, you are taking a look at a timeline when this might get pushed at greatest, maybe to into late March, since you’d need to re-adjudicate the info having so as to add comp to get the vaccine out into the availability chain. By the point that occurs, I believe you are taking a look at a March date, perhaps late March. So I do not suppose that is one thing that is going to occur within the subsequent month. Proper now, Pfizer and the FDA wanting very intently on the information that is accrued to see if they’ll decide round this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll nonetheless have to attend know physician, as a result of that is so extremely transmissible. This Omicron variant, there are lots of people who’re getting back from an infection. How susceptible or protected are they? As a result of I am getting the sense that folks suppose they’re bulletproof.

DR. GOTTLIEB: Yeah, look, what we have seen from the info is that when you get contaminated with any one in all these variants, you in all probability have a interval of immunity that is fairly strong. We do not know the way lengthy it’s, however you will have a interval of immunity that is fairly strong and also you in all probability have nearly as good, if not higher immunity in opposition to that subsequent variant as when you have been simply vaccinated and by no means contaminated. So, people who find themselves contaminated with Delta in all probability have a reasonably strong immunity in opposition to Delta, and maybe it is nearly as good, if not higher than in the event that they have been simply vaccinated, by no means contaminated with Delta. However what we discover is the vaccines present the broadest doable immunity, so folks with Omicron may need good safety in opposition to Omicron. They in all probability haven’t got nearly as good safety in opposition to Delta. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, which is why these mutations in these new variants are one thing to look at. Thanks very a lot, physician. Developing subsequent, a more in-depth take a look at what some People are eager about COVID and the economic system.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Through the course of the pandemic, we have been listening to People by way of Zoom to get their ideas on COVID, the economic system, and the way the federal government is dealing with all of it. On Friday, we checked again in with six of them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Who seems like we’re in a greater place now than we have been a 12 months in the past? Present of arms. Nobody believes we’re in a greater spot now?

BETH, 202 TRUMP VOTER (INDEPENDENT): Sadly, I do not suppose that our public servants are literally — they’re sort of on a lag with the science. I used to be not vaxxed. Had COVID. I did not even know I had it. I had the sniffles for 2 days and physique aches. And if I hadn’t misplaced my sense of scent, I would not have recognized the distinction. It is clearly not as horrible as maybe it was described. For some it has been, and I am very sorry for that. However for lots of us who do maintain ourselves and every thing and are youthful, we have to go on and reside our lives. And public science has not caught up with that but.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How many individuals know somebody who has died from COVID or been hospitalized with COVID? So, Mildred, you raised your hand there. Do you will have a distinct perspective while you hear the descriptions of claiming it — it is not that unhealthy? 

MILDRED, 2020 BIDEN VOTER: I can not actually say that it is not that unhealthy. I believe it’s unhealthy. I believe this complete nation is affected by COVID fatigue at this level. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Uh-huh.

MILDRED: It has develop into complicated and miserable. I am an aged individual myself, and, um, a most cancers survivor, and that is one of many explanation why I went forward and took the vaccine and the booster.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You initially informed us, a 12 months or so in the past, that you just — you did not need to be a guinea pig. You had concern about taking the vaccine. What modified your thoughts?

MILDRED: Um, a number of my mates who had gone forward and brought the vaccine, and I noticed the place they’d executed effectively. And I need to be round. You already know, there’s by no means any assure, however I need to be round to see my grandkids.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So why do not you suppose, now that you’ve that instrument in your disposal, why do not you suppose we’re in a greater place?

MILDRED: Effectively, I do not know if we’re in a greater place as a rustic. We’re nonetheless very divided on this complete COVID factor.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Go forward, Jill. 

JILL, 2020 BIDEN VOTER: I used to be of the opinion that when folks bought vaccinated, they’d let their guard down. They’d exit and congregate. And I am a soccer fan. And it makes me pores and skin crawl after I watch the video games and I see so many individuals collectively, as a result of that is precisely what it did. They bought vaccinated, they thought, we’re high-quality, we are able to exit and do all of the issues we would usually do. And that is the damaging half.

Now, I’m vaccinated, however I would not dream of not carrying a masks. The issues that I see happening in America, it makes my pores and skin crawl as a result of folks suppose we’re out of the woods, and we’re not. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: So while you hear President Biden say this can be a pandemic of the unvaccinated, Jill, do you are feeling like he is speaking about you?

JILL: Under no circumstances. Under no circumstances. As a result of I work with somebody who’s vaccinated and has had the booster, they usually’ve had COVID thrice. So, I am not shopping for that. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Jorge, you — you might be nodding your head in full settlement with Jill? 

JORGE, 2020 TRUMP VOTER: Oh, one hundred percent. And I believe that is a part of the issue that we have had is the misinformation. Truly, research have already proven that fabric masks are usually not efficient in any respect. (INAUDIBLE) not — under no circumstances 

MARGARET BRENNAN: That is proper, the standard of your masks — the standard of your masks issues rather a lot.

JORGE: The standard of the masks. They usually did not say that at the beginning. They mentioned, oh, simply put on a masks and you will be high-quality. So I believe when — while you’re chief is saying one factor and — and — after which it is not true, that begins — you start to query that.

Folks that do not need to get vaccinated have their very own causes, and I do not suppose it has something to do with President Trump.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And, to your level, former President Trump has gotten vaccinated and boosted, he says. So, he has now endorsed it. However, Chelsea, leap in right here. How are you feeling? Are you feeling extra assured today? 

CHELSEA, 2020 BIDEN VOTER: No, not likely. I am nonetheless fearful about getting sick. You already know, I am totally vaxxed. I bought my booster. I put on my masks. However I agree, like, the messaging has been actually complicated. And I do not blame folks in any respect who have not gotten vaccinated as a result of the story was the pandemic might be over. However the fact of the matter is, folks do nonetheless get sick although they’re vaccinated. So, I believe that issues are simply as unhealthy as they have been when the pandemic began.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And, Jorge, strolling into the classroom you have been involved as a instructor about getting uncovered. I imply, do you are feeling like the protection pointers for school rooms are clearly communicated

JORGE: In Texas we’re. We do not put on masks. We do not — you do not have to get a vaccine. You will get a vaccine if you would like. It is — you maintain your self. And that is the way it must be. You’ve got to have your personal private convictions, and also you comply with them. When you select to not get vaccinated, then you definately’re selecting to reside with these penalties. 

JILL: The issues that I’ve executed to date, it is protected me, and I’ve not gotten sick. And if I do, that is one thing I’ve to reside with. However simply, proper now, I simply really feel like I’ve a alternative, and my alternative is simply to not do it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re a 12 months into unified Democratic management of the Home, of the Senate, of the chief department. Do you are feeling any in another way? Do you are feeling that Washington understands what all of you might be experiencing on the market? Beth is shaking her head no. I imply so a lot of you might be. However have you ever all the time felt that approach, or is there a brand new degree of kind of skepticism about Washington? 

BETH: Sure, I believe so. I — I actually had such excessive hopes for this administration after they got here in. And it is simply been one catastrophe after one other. Afghanistan, inflation, take your choose, I simply do not perceive. I assumed this was going to be a president for the folks, of the folks, and I simply really feel prefer it’s one, you understand, hurtle after one other that all of us need to climb.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Chelsea, I noticed you increase your hand.

CHELSEA: I do agree that basically for me nothing has modified. I believe that I’m extra skeptical now. My life has not improved. COVID has not improved. Biden has not, you understand, caught to any of his guarantees. I do not suppose anybody in Washington is actually for working folks. And that has been so clear this 12 months. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: That time on working folks, there was no less than $2 trillion pumped into the economic system. There have been childcare tax credit. When President Biden took workplace, he despatched out these $1,400 checks. There’s been all this cash pumped in with the intention of serving to working folks. Are you saying it simply hasn’t made a distinction in your life?

CHELSEA: Definitely not in my life, personally.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Sandy, do you are feeling that approach? I imply I am taking a look at a $300 tax credit score monthly for every youngster. The $1,400 checks that President Biden handed out. I am taking a look at all these lists of issues that have been pumped on the market with the intention of serving to on a regular basis folks. Do you agree with Chelsea that it simply hasn’t made a distinction in your life?

SANDY, 2020 TRUMP VOTER: It actually hasn’t made a distinction in any respect, no less than in my life. Certain, it could have helped some folks quickly, however finally what every thing prices, with all this cash pumped into the economic system, it induced inflation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, economists would inform you a number of that has to do with simply the shocks from the pandemic. When you bought a shot, when you went out and bought the vaccine as a result of it could assist the economic system, you understand, is that an efficient promoting level for you, versus telling you you are going to get sick or not?

SANDY: It would not assist the value of bacon proper now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Can I see a present of arms, do any of you are feeling just like the economic system has gotten higher previously 12 months? All of you might be saying no. Though the job image is brighter? Though the path of the economic system and recovering is going on? Are you all involved about rising costs and inflation

MILDRED: I’m going to the grocery retailer now and I am paying double the quantity that I used to be paying, you understand, even just a few months in the past. The whole lot’s gone up. My granddaughter loves bacon, by the way in which, and I can barely afford bacon. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: And whose fault do you suppose that’s? I imply it is the Federal Reserve that controls rates of interest. It is their job to regulate inflation. Do you blame the president? Do you blame the central bankers? Or do you blame, what, simply Congress?

MILDRED: I do know the Federal Reserve is speaking about — they’re speaking about growing the rate of interest, however I believe it is a mixture. Congress is nugatory. I do not — you do not even need me to begin on Congress.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I really do as a result of this is likely one of the issues. In President Biden’s first 12 months, one of many issues they are saying they’re most pleased with is that this historic funding in infrastructure, and the actual fact they bought Republicans and Democrats to signal on to it. Even with that, you continue to say they’re nugatory?

MILDRED: I do, as a result of there’s a lot extra that must be executed.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Like what? What do you want?

MILDRED: I want for the value of bacon to go down. How about that? I want for the federal government to cease spending a lot cash on issues which can be nugatory, that aren’t going to — 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Like what? 

MILDRED: That aren’t going to profit the folks. I imply they’re sending out N-95 masks, you understand, to cowl folks’s faces. Any individual is making them, and someone’s creating wealth off of that. You already know, I — you understand, that — to me that is loopy. They’re additionally sending out COVID assessments.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Uh-huh.

MILDRED: For folks to do COVID testing at house. Waste of cash.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The administration would say these are the issues that can assist maintain the economic system going as a result of then you definately will not have to remain house when you do not catch COVID.

BETH: It takes 12 days to get the take a look at within the mail, one other 12 days to get your outcomes. That is 24 days. 

MARGARET BRENNAN: Effectively, these at-home assessments are alleged to be fast, just some minutes.

JORGE: Here is what’s incorrect with our administration. They — like she was saying, right here you might be sending all of those assessments, sending the masks. So, I’ll pump extra money into this economic system. I’ll maintain spending extra money. And it may repair every thing. No, inflation goes to hit 8 %, 9 %. We’ll be again to Jimmy Carter. And we all know what occurred to Jimmy Carter. You possibly can’t maintain doing that. I nearly really feel just like the administration got here in and mentioned, you understand what, we will do every thing reverse of what Trump did.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARGARET BRENNAN: There might be extra of our “Listening to America” phase Monday on our CBS Information streaming community throughout “Pink and Blue,” and the total dialog might be on our web site at facethenation.com. 

(ANNOUNCEMENTS) 

MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us at the moment. Thanks all for watching. Till subsequent week, for FACE THE NATION, I am Margaret Brennan. 

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)



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